Other sites in the His Dark Media network: His Dark Media Twilight Saga SherlockChronicles.org
Hello there! Please sign in or create a new account.
Click on the tab to open the menu ›

extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

This forum is for all questions and discussions pertaining to the dæmons of His Dark Materials.

extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby thebodyresponsive » Wed May 20, 2009 4:49 pm

Is it possible that a person has Dæmon that is in the form of an animal that has been extinct before they were born or has gone extinct during their lifetime?
What about fictional creatures? There was a scene in the first book where Pan turned into a dragon but upon closer look at the description it seemed more like the description of a komodo dragon being as it was only waist high to a young girl.

Then again i have had a feeling that people tended to have Dæmon in the form of something they have knowledge exists because of first hand sightings or through some form of media and it is doubtful that paleontology to the point of accurate modeling was existent in Lyra's world.

I am not sure where I was going with this but if anyone has any related ideas feel free to post them.
thebodyresponsive
Settled Dæmon
Settled Dæmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:29 pm
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Green Mamba
Dæmon Name: Galili or 'Lily'

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby latency » Wed May 20, 2009 5:47 pm

I think it's possible, but usual rules apply about likely hood of your dæmon actually settling as a fictional / extinct animal.

Your dæmon is going to settle as some kind of animal you're familiar with, so it probably won't settle on something like a dragon unless you know enough about them to be as familier with them as you would be, say, a cat- as well as having a personality fitting to a dragon's...
“And I will seek to understand, rather than to be understood.” St. Francis Prayer
User avatar
latency
Exempt from Rank
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Hampshire - Dorset Interloper
Gender: Male
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Dæmon Species: Jung's Anima
Dæmon Name: Tameth

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Knight » Thu May 21, 2009 6:47 pm

latency wrote:I think it's possible, but usual rules apply about likely hood of your dæmon actually settling as a fictional / extinct animal.

Your dæmon is going to settle as some kind of animal you're familiar with, so it probably won't settle on something like a dragon unless you know enough about them to be as familier with them as you would be, say, a cat- as well as having a personality fitting to a dragon's...

Sooo, in one word........









Pom pom?
Sssh, my common sense is tingling.

Danny wrote:I want a job toooo! I'm not old enough or anything, but still.
User avatar
Knight
In Powered Armour
In Powered Armour
 
Posts: 2526
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:25 pm
Location: Universe 616
Gender: Male
Country: Ireland (ie)
Dæmon Species: Hawk
Dæmon Name: Harrion

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby jfrcoates » Sat May 23, 2009 5:09 am

Technically that's two :wink:

Well, one word repeated twice. :lol:
But yes, I think I would fit latency's description there :D

Though, that brings up the debate... my fursona may be a dragon, but does that mean my Dæmon would be too?
Savage Garden wrote:I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality.



Svalbard
Can has people buying my books?
User avatar
jfrcoates
Fresh Food Fairy
Fresh Food Fairy
 
Posts: 6029
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 5:50 am
Location: The Void
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)
Dæmon Species: Stoat
Dæmon Name: Twitch
Team: Jacob

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Dæmon~Temazin » Sat May 30, 2009 5:59 pm

Dæmons can take any animal form or shape. I believe if it took the shape of a fictional animal, it would have to be something like mythical creatures from Greek and Roman mythology. Dragons, grythons, and other creatures like that. If an animal is extinct I don't think it will alter your dæmons form at all. They can also be mix animals that wouldn't normally exist in the wild, like Ligers and Wolf Dogs. So manly your dæmon can be anything that does or does not exist. As long it's an animal it's probabally okay. Knowing an animal species doesn't really have an effect either.
Spoiler:
Lyra didn't know what a pine marten was until Pan settled as one.
User avatar
Dæmon~Temazin
Watcher
Watcher
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:53 pm
Country: Italy (it)
Dæmon Species: Blue Monkey
Dæmon Name: Temazin

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby latency » Sat May 30, 2009 7:08 pm

Knowing the animal is a requirement for you Dæmon to settle in my opinion- a Dæmon can't transform into an animal it doesn't know exists.

Just like if I asked you to draw an animal you'd never seen.
“And I will seek to understand, rather than to be understood.” St. Francis Prayer
User avatar
latency
Exempt from Rank
 
Posts: 2938
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Hampshire - Dorset Interloper
Gender: Male
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Dæmon Species: Jung's Anima
Dæmon Name: Tameth

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby thebodyresponsive » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:22 am

i think you guys are probably right about the extinct animals being possible but i think that the mythical animal thing is much different. I just have this feeling that because a Dæmon is like the universes partner to the person, it should be something that already exists or has existed within the universe. Mythicals never existed so I am not sure.
thebodyresponsive
Settled Dæmon
Settled Dæmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:29 pm
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Green Mamba
Dæmon Name: Galili or 'Lily'

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby redbaron12190 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:02 am

I have a feeling that if a mythical creature played a role in a person's childhood or he or she was enthralled with a mythical creature during his life, the Dæmon could maybe change into it once or twice. But I agree that the Dæmon probably wouldn't settle as that creature, unless the child has actually seen one and interacted with one.
Attention all lovers of HDM and Harry Potter! if you'd like to see a Harry Potter addition made to His Dark Media Networks, go here to vote!
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12723&start=0


In light of recent developments on HDM.org, I'd like to point out my old signature as an archaic, outdated, yet trustworthy, source of lulz for future HDM.org users. May it forever give you a window into the past.
User avatar
redbaron12190
Zalif
Zalif
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Knight to H5!!!
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Otter
Dæmon Name: Zyvia
Team: Jacob

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Adamoun » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:00 am

I'm not very comfortable with Dæmon settling as mythical creatures, but I wouldn't mind them taking the form for a while... You know, mythicals ARE mythicals, and even though they sometimes are described very elaborately, they are not real, and their behavior cannot thus really resemble your personality.
My soul is shaped like an otter civet! Just check out those whiskers!
User avatar
Adamoun
Gallivespian Captain
Gallivespian Captain
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:10 am
Location: Finland. Wolfborder.
Gender: Female
Country: Finland (fi)
Dæmon Species: Otter civet
Dæmon Name: Harra

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby redbaron12190 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:39 pm

Their speculated behavior can resemble your soul. Perhaps a dragon Dæmon represents someone who's fiery, calculating, territorial, etc?
Attention all lovers of HDM and Harry Potter! if you'd like to see a Harry Potter addition made to His Dark Media Networks, go here to vote!
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12723&start=0


In light of recent developments on HDM.org, I'd like to point out my old signature as an archaic, outdated, yet trustworthy, source of lulz for future HDM.org users. May it forever give you a window into the past.
User avatar
redbaron12190
Zalif
Zalif
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:10 am
Location: Knight to H5!!!
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Otter
Dæmon Name: Zyvia
Team: Jacob

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Dæmon~Temazin » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:55 am

I'd like Temazin to turn into a Utahraptor! (dinosaur) There was an incident when he became a unicorn...
User avatar
Dæmon~Temazin
Watcher
Watcher
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:53 pm
Country: Italy (it)
Dæmon Species: Blue Monkey
Dæmon Name: Temazin

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Adamoun » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:32 pm

redbaron12190 wrote:Their speculated behavior can resemble your soul. Perhaps a dragon Dæmon represents someone who's fiery, calculating, territorial, etc?


Yes, but I wouldn't trust that form to be viable - I'm skeptical like that. Would you base the animal supposedly representing you on speculation or facts?
My soul is shaped like an otter civet! Just check out those whiskers!
User avatar
Adamoun
Gallivespian Captain
Gallivespian Captain
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:10 am
Location: Finland. Wolfborder.
Gender: Female
Country: Finland (fi)
Dæmon Species: Otter civet
Dæmon Name: Harra

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby mie » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:38 pm

Dæmon can settle as something extinct (Like myself, settled as a velociraptor, and I know someone who is settled as a thylacine). Mythological ones I don't tend to believe are viable forms nowadays. They're a lot like fictional characters -- they've never existed.
Mie-F-Human
Seq - marching devil

The Dæmon Page
User avatar
mie
Settled Dæmon
Settled Dæmon
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:46 am
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Marching Devil
Dæmon Name: Seq

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby ArcT » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:41 pm

Your dæmon has settled as a velociraptor. Is this awesome? Y/N

Y
CAN IT WAIT FOR A BIT? I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME CALIBRATIONS.
User avatar
ArcT
Opinions Administrator
Opinions Administrator
 
Posts: 14171
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: On every street...
Gender: Male
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Dæmon Species: Tawny Owl
Dæmon Name: Tiao'ri

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Arden » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:37 pm

Firstly, komodo dragons are not waist-high.
Secondly, golden monkeys do not exist, but Mrs Coulter's dæmon manages it pretty well. That certainly suggests the ability of dæmons to take any form they like.
Thirdly, if the second point is correct, and dæmons can take any form, then surely they can take the form of, say, a lamp. The same goes for any shapeshifter.

By the way, mine would so be a blonde nine-tailed fox. 8)
Arden
Unsettled Dæmon
Unsettled Dæmon
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby Adamoun » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:09 pm

Actually, Arden, here are species of monkeys whose fur is golden, so technically there are golden monkeys. The book just doesn't specify the species. Are these not golden?

Image

and

Image
My soul is shaped like an otter civet! Just check out those whiskers!
User avatar
Adamoun
Gallivespian Captain
Gallivespian Captain
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:10 am
Location: Finland. Wolfborder.
Gender: Female
Country: Finland (fi)
Dæmon Species: Otter civet
Dæmon Name: Harra

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby thebodyresponsive » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:46 pm

Arden wrote:Firstly, komodo dragons are not waist-high.

they are about 1 meter high in full adulthood and that is at the large end of the statistics. the waist height of a girl Lyras age is about .7 meters. i am assuming that because the human isn't fully grown the Dæmon isn't either and therefore doesn't quite reach the full meter and that because it is male it may be slightly smaller than females as reptiles tend to have larger girls than boys. either way let us not argue over something as tiny as the height of a big lizard and say for arguments sake it is big enough to be construed as a dragon even though it is a real animal. i mean really, i doubt the author really did a lot of research into the exact physiology of every form of every Dæmon in the books.
thebodyresponsive
Settled Dæmon
Settled Dæmon
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:29 pm
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Dæmon Species: Green Mamba
Dæmon Name: Galili or 'Lily'

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby aurora borealis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:41 pm

Just a thought that crossed my mind...
In NL it says that one of the masters had a Dæmon that was a 'fair lady' (chapter 3), and I guess that means a nymph or something of that sort. Isn't it slightly strange to have a Dæmon who's form resembles that of a human?
And since Dæmons are said to generally take animal forms, what would that mean about this person? Perhaps he was kind of an unusual ,or outsider sort of person.
...And if you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
User avatar
aurora borealis
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Spying on a spy
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: Kestrel

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby dannyyyy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:22 pm

bringing up another question, why only animals? why not a human form? or a lamp as Arden said? if they can shapeshift, why limit to animals? one more question, can they change what colour they want to be?
"Time waits for no one"
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power"
User avatar
dannyyyy
Rebel Commander
Rebel Commander
 
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:54 am
Location: Castle of Cagliostro
Gender: Male
Country: United Kingdom (uk)
Dæmon Species: Eagle
Dæmon Name: Kiyoshi

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby aurora borealis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Oh, human form would be really weird. It reminds me of the deaths in TAS. kind of creepy...
I guess they're not human to distinguish them from human beings. That way you can say: that's a Dæmon and that's a person.
And what kind of person would be represented by A LAMP anyway?! Does a lamp even have traits?! it's an object!
...And if you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
User avatar
aurora borealis
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Spying on a spy
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: Kestrel

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby MyOnlyLight » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:46 pm

aurora.borealis wrote:Just a thought that crossed my mind...
In NL it says that one of the masters had a Dæmon that was a 'fair lady' (chapter 3), and I guess that means a nymph or something of that sort. Isn't it slightly strange to have a Dæmon who's form resembles that of a human?


Take into consideration that the author removed that from canon. I can't remember what form the Dæmon now takes, but it isn't a lady any longer, because Pullman wanted all Dæmon to be animals.
MyOnlyLight
Street Urchin
Street Urchin
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 am
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: spotted hyena
Dæmon Name: Vorzheva

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby MyOnlyLight » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm

aurora.borealis wrote:Oh, human form would be really weird. It reminds me of the deaths in TAS. kind of creepy...
I guess they're not human to distinguish them from human beings. That way you can say: that's a Dæmon and that's a person.
And what kind of person would be represented by A LAMP anyway?! Does a lamp even have traits?! it's an object!


Dæmon are immediately distinguishable from animals anyway. That's why no one ever mistakes a witch's Dæmon for a bird, even when the witch isn't close by. And it's why, in Lyra's Oxford, she hid the witch's Dæmon in her bag so no one would see him.
MyOnlyLight
Street Urchin
Street Urchin
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 am
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: spotted hyena
Dæmon Name: Vorzheva

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby MyOnlyLight » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:52 pm

latency wrote:Knowing the animal is a requirement for you Dæmon to settle in my opinion- a Dæmon can't transform into an animal it doesn't know exists.

Just like if I asked you to draw an animal you'd never seen.


Except that Lyra's Dæmon, as well as Lee's, did just that. Granted, they were both forms that were very, very similar to other more common forms, but neither Lee nor Lyra knew exactly what their Dæmon was, and had to be told.
MyOnlyLight
Street Urchin
Street Urchin
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 am
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: spotted hyena
Dæmon Name: Vorzheva

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby MyOnlyLight » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:02 pm

thebodyresponsive wrote:Is it possible that a person has Dæmon that is in the form of an animal that has been extinct before they were born or has gone extinct during their lifetime?
What about fictional creatures? There was a scene in the first book where Pan turned into a dragon but upon closer look at the description it seemed more like the description of a komodo dragon being as it was only waist high to a young girl.

Then again i have had a feeling that people tended to have Dæmon in the form of something they have knowledge exists because of first hand sightings or through some form of media and it is doubtful that paleontology to the point of accurate modeling was existent in Lyra's world.

I am not sure where I was going with this but if anyone has any related ideas feel free to post them.


I'm less inclined to believe in a Dæmon that settles as a mythical beast, and only slightly more inclined to believe in one with an extinct form. I think that as a child, your Dæmon is fully capable of taking on the form of something mythical, or tweaking an already existing form into something slightly different (like Pan turning into a miniature lion, early on in the first book). But settling has as much to do with maturation as it does with personality. So while your Dæmon will settle as something that represents your inner self, I think they'll also take a form that is likely. By this I mean, as you get older you lose your belief in the mythical. It has nothing to do with being less imaginative and everything to do with being more realistic. So your Dæmon is going to take a realistic form and not a fantastic one, because you're maturing.

As far as inanimate objects go... well, that doesn't make sense. Of course your Dæmon is going to mimic the form of something living. You are a living person. Your Dæmon is part of you. Why on earth would it take the form of an object? Even if it represents a dimwitted personality, or a very bright one, there are animals that portray both those things perfectly well without getting ridiculous about it. There's also the matter of your Dæmon being the part of your conscience that you can't shove away and ignore. An object wouldn't be capable of that, and would therefore defeat the purpose of having a Dæmon.
(Unless we're talking inanimate objects like... the Brave Little Toaster, or Lumiere, and WOAH, the mental image I just got)
MyOnlyLight
Street Urchin
Street Urchin
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 am
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: spotted hyena
Dæmon Name: Vorzheva

Re: extinct animal/ mythical Dæmon

Postby aurora borealis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:03 pm

MyOnlyLight wrote:
aurora.borealis wrote:Just a thought that crossed my mind...
In NL it says that one of the masters had a Dæmon that was a 'fair lady' (chapter 3), and I guess that means a nymph or something of that sort. Isn't it slightly strange to have a Dæmon who's form resembles that of a human?


Take into consideration that the author removed that from canon. I can't remember what form the Dæmon now takes, but it isn't a lady any longer, because Pullman wanted all Dæmon to be animals.


Really, Philip Pullman removed this from Northern lights? I've only just recently read the books, and I have the 2007 version, so this has to be a rather recent change then. Were other things removed or altered as well?
...And if you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
User avatar
aurora borealis
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Spying on a spy
Gender: Female
Dæmon Species: Kestrel

Next

Return to Dæmonology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

cron

| 0.2859 | 192 days 0:25 | 0