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LotR Connection

This forum is for all the stuff related to the second book in the trilogy: The Subtle Knife.

LotR Connection

Postby Trillian » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:00 pm

The Ending of The Two Towers:
Sam fights of Shelob, then a bunch of Orc soldiers. He fails to realize Frodo is alive, so he leaves him behind and the book ends this way:
Frodo was alive but taken by the Enemy.
. ((Insert also me screaming, running to my Dad and demanding he tell me were the next book was.))

The Ending of The Subtle Knife:
Also a fight to rescue someone, climaxing with:
... Lyra was gone, Lyra was captured, Lyra was lost.
((Thankfully, this time I acquired all three books at once.))

See the similarity between the two?
'It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.' - W.E. Henley

"Let's all go home.
They can't stop us.
Nobody has the right to stop us." - Endou Kenji
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby ArcT » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:10 pm

What, do you mean the well-used cliffhanger of "Main Protagonist is Captured by Enemies! Tune In Next Week For The Exciting Continuation!!"? It's a good way to hook your readers for the third part of the series - after all, you're writing a series- the end of the story is the aim, not the end of the part; therefore where you put the end of each episodical is simply a marketing ploy. When you have something as golden as a relatable, fallible protagonist, your audience wants to experience more about them. Take them away, and you get exactly your reaction to Lord of the Rings. You get this everywhere - American dramas such as 24, Lost and Heroes really cash in on it. It's great you noticed it, though - it shows that even though there are really very few stories and ways to write them in this world, you can still get an amazing variety!
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Trillian » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:27 pm

Yeah, I guess it's pretty obvious now that you mention it that way...
'It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.' - W.E. Henley

"Let's all go home.
They can't stop us.
Nobody has the right to stop us." - Endou Kenji
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby ArcT » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:36 pm

Aw, I didn't mean it like that... Just glad that somebody else notices the theory behind trilogy writing, because it's often so overlooked and (as I'm finding with university) it's ludicrously complicated!
CAN IT WAIT FOR A BIT? I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME CALIBRATIONS.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Trillian » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:24 am

I guess it would be. I find that seconds in trilogies are more like bridges from the first book to the third than independent books themselves, so authors have to make up for the usual shortness and lower quality of a second (compared to the first) with some ridiculously huge cliffhanger.
'It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.' - W.E. Henley

"Let's all go home.
They can't stop us.
Nobody has the right to stop us." - Endou Kenji
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Pilgrim » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:33 am

Also the third book is almost always darker in tone then the first, to up the stakes.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:52 am

That's probably because the characters have gained alot more knowledge on their quests and have seen/experienced stuff that wouldn't have happened otherwise (i.e. pain, seperation, death, etc). With all this comes a much darker tone that adds to the power of a book.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Dustbin » Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:13 pm

Does anyone think the Subtle Knife could cut the One Ring?????
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:46 am

Hhmmmmm.......good question.

Probably not, because Giacomo Paradisi said "This edge will cut through any material in the world." and Boreal says "It's the knife that will cut anything...Nothing, no one, matter spirit, angel, air-nothing is invulnerable to the Subtle knife."

So I doubt it, but I am pretty much biased towards HDM, so who knows? :)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Adamoun » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:47 am

But LOTR says the One Ring can only be destroyed by throwing it to the Mount Doom, doesn't it? ;)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:42 am

Once again, I'm biased towards HDM. So knife pretty much owns.

:)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Dustbin » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:08 pm

Imagine how it could have gone if Will cut into Middle-Earth...
That would be one epic crossover.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:39 pm

Great fan-fic idea right there.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Dustbin » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:36 pm

It would be so funny if the place where Gandalf fought the Balrog over the abyss in LOTR was the same place in another dimension as where Asriel and Marisa fought Metatron...
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:37 am

Haha that would be interesting :)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Dustbin » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:56 pm

The Fellowship flee. Gandalf does not follow, but turns, looking into the wall of fire. A great form of black shadow leaps through the flames, its eyes of white fire, great ash-black horns curling around a bull-like head. It opens its maw, rippling heat pouring out with a rumble. Gandalf turns, running after the Fellowship. A great, black, cloven foot stomps down into the hall, bursting into flame. A narrow bridge of stone appears in the fiery light, and the Fellowship crosses the bridge. Gandalf turns to face the Balrog.

Gandalf: You cannot pass!

Frodo: <watching from the other side> Gandalf!

Great shadows like wings of ash whirl around the demon, which spreads its arms and bursts into cracking, bursting, thundering flame. Gandalf stands beneath it, staff and sword raised.

Gandalf: I am the servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor…

He begins to lift his staff. A blazing light radiates from it, illuminating the entire bridge, encircling the wizard in a globe of endless light.

Gandalf: The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udûn!

The Balrog heaves its arm upward, a sword of fire forming in its hand.

The Balrog strikes down on Gandalf, who parries the blow with his blade, shattering the Balrog’s sword. Glowing embers run off the circle of light around the wizard. The enraged monster bellows at the wizard. Frodo gasps. Aragorn runs forward.

Gandalf: <clenching his teeth> Go back to the Shadow!

A thread of flame issues from the Balrog’s maw, and it steps forward onto the bridge. The beats brandishes a flaming whip, lashing it about menacingly. Gandalf summons the last of his energy, and raises his sword and staff together into the air.

Gandalf: YOU...SHALL NOT...PASS!!!

Gandalf lifts his staff and prepares to drive it into the bridge. Then, suddenly, for no reason at all, some sort of window opened in the air above the abyss. Gandalf paused and looked through. He saw a man, a woman, and two animals, who all seemed to be struggling against a tall winged man, who glowed with an unearthly light.
The fighting stopped, and the angel slowly turned to face the window. Thrusting Asriel and Mrs Coulter aside, the angel walked to the window and peered through.
He saw an enormous black shadow, flames flowing through its body, which was locked in paused combat with an old man.
Both stood on a thin stone bridge over an abyss which seemed almost as deep as the one Metatron had been fighting over. At the far side of the bridge, a group of eight onlookers stood, watching anxiously.
Metatron stepped gingerly through the window into this new world, his feet landing on the bridge. He turned and walked towards the eight onlookers, casually pushing Gandalf off the bridge.
Gandalf grabbed desperately at the edge.

Frodo: GANDALF!

Gandalf: Fly, you fools!

Gandalf let go.

Frodo: NOOOOO!!!!!

One of the men rushed forward and grabbed Frodo before running away with the others.
The Balrog peered cautiously through the window. He saw Asriel and Marisa. They were kissing again. The Balrog grunted in disgust and stepped through.
Marisa opened one eye and saw the flaming, shadowy creature moving towards them. She broke free from Asriel and pointed wordlessly over his shoulder. He saw the Balrog.

Asriel: Oh shi-

The Balrog hit him with its flaming whip, sending him flying into the abyss, his Dæmon Stelmaria dragged along with him. Marisa screamed and ran in the opposite direction.
The Balrog, however, was not interested in her. His interests lay with the ghostly procession far below, who looked up in confusion at the Balrog after seeing the screaming Asriel fall.
The Balrog unfurled his wings and, licking his fiery lips, descended towards the tasty ghosts...

Metatron strode purposefully after the Fellowship. When he had glanced at the hobbit, he had known in that instant everything the hobbit knew. He knew his name was Frodo Baggins, and he knew that he was from a land called the Shire.
More importantly, he knew that he bore a ring containing the power of a certain Dark Lord Sauron.
Metatron also knew that he now desired this ring even more than he desired Mrs Coulter.

No man could outrun the Regent, and within ten seconds Metatron snatched up the hobbit, reached under his shirt and tore the ring from its golden chain, while skilfully deflecting the attacks of the other members of the Fellowship.
This world was strange and interesting. Metatron made a mental note to come back and conquer it at some stage. But he still had the little matter of Asriel and Marisa to attend to.

After leaving the bewildered Fellowship behind and returning to his fight in Asriel's world, Metatron noticed several things:
Asriel and his Dæmon were nowhere to be seen.
Marisa and her Dæmon were also nowhere to be seen.
The Balrog could be seen far below, and it appeared to be trying to eat the ghosts.

Metatron decided to cut his losses and make do with what he had. He examined the ring more carefully.
It really was a nice thing, all golden and round.
Metatron slipped it onto his finger.

To be continued...

(BTW, this doesn't actually directly contradict HDM canon! xD)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Mils » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:45 pm

Haha, i like it :) nice job.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Dustbin » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:54 pm

I don't think I'll actually write any more, though. Describing Metatron wielding the One Ring might be a little beyond my abilities as an author.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Phit » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:42 pm

Also, I'd say it's more reference to Fight Club :P

Tyler's not here. Tyler went away. Tyler's gone.


... Lyra was gone, Lyra was captured, Lyra was lost.


Or the other way around if the movie came after 1997 or the book has the same lines and whenever that landed.
That's pretty funny though, the falling trio could land on Gandalf.
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby Danz » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:18 am

That's one of the oldest tricks in the book, isn't it?
"Protagonist caught alive, oh no!"
"...And on that cheek, and o'er that brow,
So soft, so calm, yet eloquent,
The smiles that win, the tints that glow,
But tell of days in goodness spent,
A mind at peace with all below,
A heart whose love is innocent!"
(Lord Byron)
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Re: LotR Connection

Postby brownlitlle » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:04 am

You get this everywhere - American dramas such as 24, Lost and Heroes really cash in on it.
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