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did anyone else think sir charles was a pedophile??

This forum is for all the stuff related to the second book in the trilogy: The Subtle Knife.

did anyone else think sir charles was a pedophile??

Postby kauldron26 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:39 am

i swear when i was reading the subtle knife and that scene with lyra at the museum, we see lyra through sir charles point of view, him watching her legs, intentionally brushing her fingers, giving her his card, him licking his lips, lyra described him as a perfumed palace with rotten food beneath... i swear i was so freaked out and perturbed. i was like pullman is effing brave for introducing real live evil outside of the fantastical kind.... but then it turned out all he wanted was the golden compass... lol.... maybe i've just been watching too much law and order SVU.
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Postby daftbrain » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:18 am

I definitely did and it was quite perturbing. I'm fairly sure it was Pullman's intention to write him that way.

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Postby fbi_woman » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:01 pm

I def thought so too lol. He was beyond creepy in that part of the book lol.
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Postby wasipurple » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:26 pm

Mmh. If I remember correctly, Lord Boreal was Mrs Coulter's lover or something like that.

Maybe Lyra reminded him of Mrs Coulter in a not so sane way.

But yeah, I definitely thought so, especially when Lyra gets in the car with him. I was like "UH BAD IDEA, YOU'RE BETTER OFF WITH THE COPS!!!"
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Postby fbi_woman » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:30 pm

were him an MC actually together? I know she kind of seduced him when she killed him, but I wasn't sure if they were actually a thing or not.
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Postby seyla » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:42 pm

I don't think they were, she was only using him to get what she wanted.

And thats exactly what I thought.
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Postby corkysmackeldorf » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:07 pm

I deff thought he was. Me and my friends discuss it all the time. Im glad someone got the idea to start a thread on it. But the whole nasty smell to him and when she's getting outta the car and hes like "Oh no get out on this side, climbe over my lap". I was thinking "OMG he's totaly gonna rape her right there".
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Postby Feistee » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:08 pm

I definately had that thought, and in my head, I was chanting "run Lyra, run!" for the whole scene!

I think he and Mrs. Coulter were lovers *shudder* -- Asriel says so in the end of TGC/NL and that he didn't care about Boreal.
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Postby corkysmackeldorf » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:23 am

I dont think they were "lovers" at all. She might have been haveing "relations" with him in order to get what she wanted, but i dont think it was any sort of mutual want for each other.
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Postby fbi_woman » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:29 am

^ that's the impression I got
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Postby wasipurple » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:41 am

Me too, I just didn't know which word to use, so I went with lovers. :)
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Postby TowerDragon » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:43 am

I'm glad I was not the only one that was thinking this while i was reading the book. Differently disturbing the way it was written.
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Postby Rakesh » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:41 pm

Mabye I was too small to think about child molesters, I just thought: "Bad guy".
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Postby Feistee » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:46 pm

Yes well, that's what I meant. "Relations" is what they had -- clearly there was no affection, as Mrs. Coulter did poison him.
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Postby Rakesh » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:30 pm

Aww, but loved ones do that every now and then. Keeping relationships fresh is half the fun.
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Postby corkysmackeldorf » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:25 pm

Well my aunt did poison her husband once...

But he was cheating on her lol
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Postby Neptune » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:22 am

fbi_woman wrote:were him an MC actually together? I know she kind of seduced him when she killed him, but I wasn't sure if they were actually a thing or not.


Erm, at the end of TSK, MC seduced him, isn't it??

I was one moment thinking he was though, but it put off my mind when I saw that scene when MC seduces him.
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Postby corkysmackeldorf » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:17 pm

Just because MC seduces him doesnt mean he's not a child molester. There are many people like that who have a wife and kids. Maybe he just prefers young blood.

Oh or maybe pullman describes him like this to show his lust for the compass.
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Postby RepublicanofHeaven » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:18 pm

On the contraire, my good friend, this doesn't mean that he is a child molester either . . . there is no solid proof

And as Lord Boreal is a man of great power, I feel that even if he did have such temptations, his will was strong enough to resist (as a means of accomplishing more important tasks: such as stealing the compass)

Although his perception of Lyra could have been seen as sexual, perhaps he had a reason for being in the museum in the first place (whether it involves lyra can't be known for sure) and he recognized features similar to Mrs. Coulter or had known the prophecy to involve a girl of such characteristics.

Either way, I feel that he would never of acted on Lyra, especially once he realized she had the compass and was so important of a character.

Nonetheless, the context of the scene suggests his possible attraction, especially when he makes her crawl over him awkwardly (although he was right about getting out on the street side of the car)

As for MC, Boreal had developed what he thought was a relationship with her, and Im sure MC had acted seductively to get what she wanted from him in the past. So once she got what she needed from him, she killed him. As a result, they were not "lovers" (However, this could be debated between MC and LA alot more because it seemed that LA had barely any sexual desires due to the importance of his goals and great tasks)
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Postby JParry » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:22 am

RoH, nice to see you again!

I think that the pedophilia is definitely implicit in the scene. He doesn't act on it because there are more important things to do, but he's very creepy. I didn't pick up on the sexual element when I read it the first time, because I was quite young, but I did think he was really creepy.

Clearly Boreal and Coulter had ongoing relations, it wasn't just a one-off seduction, because LA knew about him - he says later, something like "yes, I know about Boreal."

To RoH, I think LA definitely had sexual desires, see how he had sex with Ruta Skadi in the Basalt Fortress, but clearly he was focused on his task.
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Postby ssllaatteerrx2 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:47 pm

haha thats funny i thought the same thing as you
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Postby Adamoun » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:13 am

I thought he was a pedohile too! It was crazy and I first didn't notice it ( I was like eleven when I read HDM first). In the car Lyra thought that police couldn't get her because she was in the car with a rich man ...
I couldn't help laughing! It's really liberating to hear that I'm not the only one with these ideas.
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Postby Ivor » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:01 pm

I thought he was, i was like woah! PEDOPHILE! *laugh*.

He was a bit freaky though.
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Postby msspookymonroex » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:45 am

I must be really naive (sorry about spelling). I never thought of Sir Charles / Lord Boreal as a pedophile, just a sleeze really.
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Postby Neptune » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:40 am

it's just how pullman's work works right, you have to think a lot deeper.
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