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Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

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Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby Sinitar » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:15 pm

I was a bit disappointed when Will's Dæmon settled as a cat. His personality matches a big cat better, and Lyra herself said in TAS that if Will had a Dæmon, she would picture her as a tigress. I was almost sure that his Dæmon would be a tiger or a leopard, because Will has courage, cunning, careful and rational and usually likes to surprise the people he has to deal with(remember the mask, the bland cover he used to make himself appear unimportant in order to deceive the people? It's stealth, and it better suits tigers and especially leopards than a plain cat.) Also, Will also makes use of cold calculations when his task asks him to do, and even if he had to sacrifice himself, he always moved forward.

So, what do you think? Personally, I think Pullman made it a cat because a leopard or a tiger was kind of big and inconvenient if his Dæmon was to be visible in his own universe. Silly, I know, but I actually thought of that right after Kirjava returned to him as a cat.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby ArG » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:36 pm

That is an interesting idea especially when you think about how Lord Asriel had a Snow Leopard. Something I think of when I think of Will's deamon is how that house cat acted like his deamon for a while before he even knew he had one. Perhaps this has to do with it?
Or, it's because he isn't like Lord Asriel in being ruthless, etc. I think LA has a personality of a big cat because he really is, as John Faa said, "high-spirited man, quick to anger, a passionate man."
I think it may also have to do with the fact that he doesn't live in Lyra's world. He would fell he had more of a connection to his deamon if it looked ordinary rather then a huge cat which may be quite a shock.
These are only my theories, but yah...
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby Sinitar » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:20 pm

Yea but each big cat has a different type of behavior. Cheetahs are the least aggressive cat and they usually want to avoid danger while leopards are very aggressive and unpredictable, and even if you try to tame them, it's still a risk to be near one.

About the house cat, I think it was an emphasized coincidence, like, it was a coincidence at first, but maybe it was more than that. That can explain some things yes, but you know that Lyra said at some point that if Will had a Dæmon, she would be a tigress. Also, Will always had a connection with his Dæmon, but it was more or less explained. Kirjava was aware of everything that happened so that means the connection was there, and the first thing that Lyra noticed about Will was that his Dæmon must live inside his body or something, I don't remember the exact quote.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby redbaron12190 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:54 am

You know, the second I read this, the first thing to pop into my mind was the fact that Lord Asriel's Dæmon was a snow leopard. It's been said by many that they think Pullman tried to compare Will to Asriel. I'd agree with them. Will and Asriel share many of the same traits which make them heroic characters. But Will diverged from Asriel in regards to Asriel's ruthlessness and willingness to justify the means by the end. For the simple reason that Asriel already had a big cat and the divergent characteristics of Will and Asriel, their two Dæmon had to be similar, but not the same.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby missy » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:14 pm

Will isn't as agressive and therous as Asriel thus Kirjara is a house cat instead of another sort of cat. Lyra said in the Sutle Knife that will's Dæmon would be a cat. Anyone else think at first that the hornbeam tree cat was Wills Dæmon before even reading the books (the cat on the cover of the American edition?) I can understand how Will gets a cat and like others have said it wouldnt' be such a shock to him. It'd be like Moxie..... I'm curious to know if Kirjara appeared to humans in will's world and to mask the idea that she was a deamon she took cat form. Will has a perference for cats and also for rodents. The whole trying to hide appearance and stay unknown. So since Lyra is in love with him Pan takes both their personalities and blends it together. Same for Kirjara since Lyra has a bit of cat in her. That's just my feeling anyway.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby redbaron12190 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:42 pm

Yeah that's a really interesting idea about Kirjava posing as a regular tabby cat in Will's world so as to not arouse suspicion or freak anyone out. Never thought about that before. When I'm rereading TSK I'll definitely look out for that!
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby Isaac<3kairos » Mon May 23, 2011 11:56 pm

by the way, hang on let me me get get my TAS, ah here we are. "Kirjava was a cat again. but she was a cat of no ordinary size, and her fur was lustrous and rich, with a thousand different glints and shades of ink-black, shadow-grey, the blue of a deep lake under a noon sky, mist-lavender-moonlight-fog... to see the meaning of the word subtlety you only had to look at her fur" sounds perfect to me remember? "subtle knife" will is good at hiding, anyway contradicting myself, serafina pekkala said to mary that others from her world could only see their Dæmon if she taught them too, therefore it wouldn't really have mattered if he had a big cat but remember, a cat of NO ORDINARY SIZE.
-------------------
also how do i put up Dæmon species and all that? on my file thingy?

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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby my_twisted_fairytale » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:26 pm

To Sinitar: "Personally, I think Pullman made it a cat because a leopard or a tiger was kind of big and inconvenient if his Dæmon was to be visible in his own universe"

- This would not have been an issue. In the Amber Spyglass there is a part where Serafina Pekkala is talking to Mary (I think) and she states that their dæmons would not be visible in their world. I can't remember the exact passage but it's near the end somewhere.

Isaac<3kairos - You are correct, it does state that Kirjava's a cat of no ordinary size. I always imagined her to be not quite so big as a panther, but maybe more like one of the Asian jungle cats, so far bigger than your average moggie, but not a BIG big cat.

I think Will's personality needs the slight subtleness of a cat that's smaller than a tiger/lion etc. He's not all out there, it's a more understated courage that he has. It's not so in-your-face.

I really don't think that Kirjava was the cat under the hornbeam trees. Will would have felt the deep bond straight away, and he had not been through the process to make her visible yet. It was just a fortunate coincidence, which life if full of and is part of what makes life so great.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby Mossface12 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Yeah, I thought he was going to get a leopard Dæmon :3
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby tearsintheearth » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:12 pm

Where did all the idea's of a leopard Dæmon come from? Thinking about it Will's Dæmon was always going to be a cat. The Cat under the Hornbeam trees and Moxie are almost used to reflect some of personality i.e. his ability to remain relatively unnoticed and how fiercely territorial cats can be. Will was always far too subtle to be a lion or a leopard.
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Re: Will's settled Dæmon: why not a leopard/tiger?

Postby AmyraMoon » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:32 pm

tearsintheearth wrote:Where did all the idea's of a leopard Dæmon come from? Thinking about it Will's Dæmon was always going to be a cat. The Cat under the Hornbeam trees and Moxie are almost used to reflect some of personality i.e. his ability to remain relatively unnoticed and how fiercely territorial cats can be. Will was always far too subtle to be a lion or a leopard.


Seconded. This is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title. :D
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