Did Will and Lyra have sex?

[chaza4991]

I think that they are far to young to be even talking about it

[JoeSchmo]

Well, they are a lot more mature for their age. I personally don't think they did, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

[chaza4991]

i would-theres a different mature to being snsible and loving to having sex!

[4609]

I agree with chaza. The were mature but still to young. It doesnt change the story so i don't think it really matters if they did or didn't. Ill leave it at that.[/quote]

[samuraishadow13]

haha im not done with the amber spyglass yet but man am i gonig 2 finish it soon after reading this question lol

[Drizzt]

well be sure to find a quote, althoug hi don't htink there is one.

[Andrew Stephen Ochiltree]

oh my goodness. if it 'ent bad enough somebody already talkin'about this . 37 pages! really. The Admin already cleared it all up. On the first page! Pullman wants you to make your mind up. Fact. The point of the poll isnt it to say yes no or whatever? Well all things considered sex is a messy messy subject as it is. Without having to go as far to say pre-adolescents have it too. Thats just too dark for me. Although regarding one persons post way way way back on the 2nd page here. Ummmm oh thats it, sex is hardwired into us.. yeah i agree with that, but its kinda obvious cuz its almost jigsaw like LOL . ( i have experiance ) so dont knock me on that hehe. anyway this is getting way off the point.

BASICALLY

Although i understand the love Will and Lyra had for each other ad how earth shattering the chapter of realisation must have been regarding having to leave each other forever, i 'ent possibly believin they did it for one moment because true love works regardless of sex in my opinion.

[Neptune]

Yeah but you might never know, would you? Will knew a lot more than a normal boy.

[Elamouphant]

Someone mentioned the most interesting and compelling evidence and you all ignored it... When lyra asks pan what he and will's Dæmon did while seperated from them, he tells her they promised each other not to tell them until the "time was right" or until they are old enough etc... So whoever said that it was their Dæmon who had sex with each other, I think that sounds about right. I mean why else would they not want to tell them until later? It makes sense.

Also the idea that sex is what separates a child from an adult is very convincing. Lyra's transformation was from child to adult and it happened at that moment when she "fell in love with Will"...

so yes I think theres absolutely no question they had sex, and I think the main reason most of you are so put off by the suggestion is because your still so young and brainwashed by society to think that sex is ugly or wrong/perverted on some level . But really it's an integral part of the story, their transformation from child to adults, the "tempting", the sin...it was the sex that represented this.

[easyaslying]

So whoever said that it was their Dæmon who had sex with each other, I think that sounds about right. I mean why else would they not want to tell them until later? It makes sense.

I think we've already had the "Dæmon sex" discussion in another thread, but even if Dæmon do have sex (which I don't think they do, myself), why would Pan and Kirjava have kept it from Lyra and Will? If Lyra and Will had just had sex themselves, as you say, then why would their Dæmon feel the need to beat around the bush?

Doesn't make sense to me.

[Provideniya]

Need for any kind of pleasures; one of the most strongest needs of human kind.

Animals don't know what it means, but somehow they know how to do it, so why wouldn't human know?

So what I mean? Ok, they may be too young "to know how to have sex", but it is writen into humans nature. They know it even without anyone to tell them about it.

And who said that sex needs to be "Boy entering Girls most holy"? Even touching and caress can be counted as some kind of sex.

[Neptune]

Someone mentioned the most interesting and compelling evidence and you all ignored it... When lyra asks pan what he and will's Dæmon did while seperated from them, he tells her they promised each other not to tell them until the "time was right" or until they are old enough etc... So whoever said that it was their Dæmon who had sex with each other, I think that sounds about right. I mean why else would they not want to tell them until later? It makes sense.

Also the idea that sex is what separates a child from an adult is very convincing. Lyra's transformation was from child to adult and it happened at that moment when she "fell in love with Will"...

so yes I think theres absolutely no question they had sex, and I think the main reason most of you are so put off by the suggestion is because your still so young and brainwashed by society to think that sex is ugly or wrong/perverted on some level . But really it's an integral part of the story, their transformation from child to adults, the "tempting", the sin...it was the sex that represented this.

Perhaps Pan and Kirjava did have sex, but imagine Lord Ariel and Mrs Coulter: humanly beautiful, but a Snow Leopard and a Golden Monkey, that really doesn't make sense. I only agree on the part Dæmon can't have sex/eat/drink. They're beings of soul, rather than a kind of animal themselves. I never recall PP writing any part about 1 human's feeling when he's touching another human's Dæmon. If that part was explained, it could've been slightly clearer.

I almost wanted to absolutely agree on you Elamouphant, but not all the people who disagree on them having sex is "brainwashed". And that almost violates Rule #1...

[DaemoN lisbon]

, they were too young, and they probably didnt know much about sex, they probably just prefered being with each other.

[faze]

ehh...

I do agree that the whole idea that they were tempted in to doing something that the church didn't want them to, and then became adults kinda sudgests sex.

[Neptune]

Yeah, so as to replace the idea that "falling in love is a kind of sin".

[GoldenDust]

I can't believe this thread lasted this long. O.O;;;

Anyways, I think it was more of a loss of innocence thing. Not a loss of 'innocence' (*cough*virginity*cough*) thing.

Basically, they grew up, and you don't need to have sex in order to grow up (contrary to popular teenaged belief). So, no they didn't have sex.

[mats sundin]

I hope i'm not ignoring a point made in 37 pages,but I was a little shocked at the idea that they had sex when i read Amber Spyglass.I think he is leaving a lot up to the reader-like the 2 angels being gay.The idea of dust/puberty/deamon's being fixed/all occuring around puberty/sexual awakening brings up the possibility of it because without christian morals to stop them who's to tell them their feelings are wrong?He makes it clear that they are adults now,but he also leaves it open ended so someone younger than puberty can read the story and not cause offence to parents.

[Neptune]

I hope i'm not ignoring a point made in 37 pages,but I was a little shocked at the idea that they had sex when i read Amber Spyglass.I think he is leaving a lot up to the reader-like the 2 angels being gay.The idea of dust/puberty/deamon's being fixed/all occuring around puberty/sexual awakening brings up the possibility of it because without christian morals to stop them who's to tell them their feelings are wrong?He makes it clear that they are adults now,but he also leaves it open ended so someone younger than puberty can read the story and not cause offence to parents.

Yeah, that's what PP says. That's all I'm going to comment about, because I thought they must've had sex. Falling in love? And a kiss is just going to pull attention to Dust? That's got to be beyond that. No offence.

[mats sundin]

Certainly no offence taken by me-a book is different things to each reader,and how you read it is how you read it.

I don't think i was ofendd so much as surprised by the idea-and a lot of that has to do with christian upbringing,and the expectation that the 2 of them would live thier lives together,so it could wait.

[faze]

It's all about gaining knowledge, and how that knowledge makes you an adult... if anybody doesn't think 'sex' at that they are obviously under 13 years old.
Alternatively, I'm seventeen, so everything makes me think 'sex'

[Neptune]

*high 5 faze*

[Max_of_the_Republic]

Well, i think Phit said it all realy... but maybe touching each other deamons is a form of Sexual Intercourse... of course it may not be on the other hand.

Do Dæmon have sex?

[Neptune]

My theory is that they can't. Imagine Selmaria and that golden monkey.

[kaspiathebroken]

I agree. Considering their ages I really don't think they had sex. I think the connection was through the kiss and touching of each others Dæmon. The meaning goes deeper than just a physical connection.

[theaurora]

My theory is that they can't. Imagine Selmaria and that golden monkey.

think of the babies!!